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‎1939 131 Estridge Way, Tonbridge, Kent, England;

Lucy Ann Downing was recorded as "Household Duties Unpaid"

Latest update2024-01-08 15:58
No. of families2146
Most children13
No. of individuals4595


man Sigfried of Luxembourg, Advocate of Saint Maximin, Count in Moselgau, Lay Abbot of Echternach‏‎ 1)
Born ‎between 915 and 920‎ 1)
Died ‎± 998 27/28 October1)

Married ‎± 955 1) 2)

woman Hedwig of Nordgau‏‎ 2)
Born ‎between 935 and 940‎ 2)
Died ‎after 992 13 December2)


man Frederick of Luxembourg‏ 3)
Died ‎6 Oct 1019 3)
woman Liutgarde of Luxembourg‏
Died ‎after 1005 13 May 1)
man Giselbert of Luxembourg‏ 4) 5)
Died ‎1004 Pavia, Lombardia, Italy

Notes: Otgive is probably the daughter of Giselbert of Luxembourg.

The Genealogia comitum Flandrensium identifies Otgive's as a daughter of Giselbert. This is reasonably contemporary, written less than 100 years after her decease. Most contemporary sources identify the same father, and some call him a Count of Luxembourg. The traditional identification of Giselbert is with Giselbert, son of Frederick, Count of Luxembourg. More recent scholars have, however, correctly ruled this out on chronological grounds. This therefore means if Otgive's father is actually a Giselbert, then he is another, possibly unknown, Giselbert.

Or alternatively, the earliest sources are ignored, and a comment in Flandria Generosa, which identifies Otgive as a sister of five sons of Siegfried, is accepted as true. Elsewhere, this source describes her as a daughter of Giselbert, so this source is internally contradictory. Given that, and given this source is less contemporary than the earlier records, this has not been followed here.

The likeliest alternative candidate for Giselbert, is Giselbert son of Siegfried, identified in a 996 charter, dying in 1004 - i.e. an uncle of the traditional Giselbert. While he was not referred to as Count of Luxemboug, given the county of Luxembourg did not exist at the time he lived, this does not seem particularly noteworthy - particularly given he was Count of lands in the area which subsequently constituted the county of Luxembourg. His name is the same as appears in the earliest sources, he is of what would become Luxembourg, and fits from a chronological perspective. The biggest weakness with this argument, is that he is not known to have had any children. Absence of evidence, though, does not entail, disproof.


1) Source: The Henry Project . External Link
https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/data/siegf000.htm. Reference: Sigefroid/Siegfried [of Luxemburg] (Sigefridus Kunuz, Sicco)
2) Source: The Henry Project . External Link
https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/data/hedwi000.htm. Reference: Hedwig
3) Source: The Henry Project . External Link
https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/data/frede000.htm. Reference: Frédéric/Friedrich (supposedly "of Luxemburg") (Questionable reliability of evidence)
4) Source: The Henry Project . External Link
https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/data/otgiv000.htm. Reference: Otgive of Luxemburg (Questionable reliability of evidence)
5) Source: Genealogia comitum Flandrensium ex libro Florido et Chronico Aldenburgensi, etc "Arnulfus autem filius Balduini juvenis duxit Susannam filiam regis Longobardorum de qua genuit Balduinum barbatum, Balduinus autem barbatus accepit Otginam, filiam Gilleberti comitis de Lizenlenborch ex qua suscepit Balduinum Insulanum." (Data from secondary evidence)